Getting a Job

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  • Mailbag 10:49 pm on December 13, 2012 Permalink  

    What do I say when the interviewer asks who’s taking care of my kids? 

    I am a mother of three children under four years old and I am currently searching for a job. I just got home from an interview for a corporate job with a company I’d love to work for, and the woman screening me asked me several times about how many kids I have, how old they are, what my feelings are about leaving them with a caregiver all day, and so on.

    I did not volunteer this information, it came up because she asked why I left my old job (my last company folded just as I was leaving for maternity leave). I found it hard to tell whether she was asking this information because she was unsure about my ability to do the job, or whether she just wanted to talk about her own maternity leave and desire for more kids.

    If I pass the personality screening test I wrote today, I will have an interview with the chairman. My question is, how do I address questions about my family size/future reproductive plans without saying, “That question is illegal” or “That’s none of your business”? Please advise!

     

     

    • Penelope Trunk 10:52 pm on December 13, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Its an illegal question so you can lie.

      I think one of the most effective lies in this situation is to say your mother or mother-in-law takes care of the kids. Say that it’s a great setup because she’s always dreamed of taking care of grandchildren and you always knew you’d want to work.

      The point is to make it sound like the kids are a total non-issue when you’re at work. Say it like you’re the luckiest mom in the world, and you’re thrilled with the setup, and you’re so happy to be going back to work.

      Penelope

    • Jana Miller 11:11 pm on December 13, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Brilliant!

    • Violeta 8:38 am on December 14, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I agree with you, Penelope, that this is an illegal question. And, if asked by a screener, I certainly would not appreciate that question either.
      However, it is a very good question which this mother must be able to answer truthfully to herself. If this mother of 3 under 4 applying for a corporate job does not have a lot of money for a lot of paid help and if she does not have a very supportive husband, then lying her way into the job would not be a good strategy at all.

    • Penelope Trunk 9:39 am on December 14, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      That might be true. But women do not need everyone to be their psychologist. When a woman interviews, she decided she wants to work. She is an adult. The world does not need to treat her like an incompetent imbecile who did not think of the ramifications of work before she interviewed.

      Do you think that interviewer asks men who is taking care of their kids? And if that interviewer did ask men that question, the men would think the interviewer is nuts. Which is what women should think: that the interviewer is nuts.

      Penelope

    • Jessica 5:13 pm on December 14, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Brava!!!

    • BrendaPatimkin 10:38 am on January 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      I have/had a similar situation when people ask about my MA. Often I get “That’s expensive, how did you do that?”. The question may not be illegal, but it is rude, nosy and has nothing to do with my ability to do a job well. I usually say, “Well, my hard work in undergrad, great recommendations and admissions essay paid off. I was awarded a very large scholarship that covered the cost.” They don’t need details. They just need to know that it wasn’t, and isn’t, an issue.

    • kristen 9:40 am on January 12, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      I love this answer.

    • Laurie Bluestone 5:00 pm on January 15, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Legal or not, this is a real question that I have been asked during the interview process of more than one firm. It’s been asked directly or indirectly so if you have kids be prepared to be asked this in some variation.

      The president of a 7000 employee company once asked me “You’re a young woman, what are your family plans?” I looked him in the eye and said in my best level steel-magnolia voice “XXX if I did not believe I could add signifiant value and do it for a long time I wouldn’t have wasted your time and mine to fly here today to meet you.” He looked relieved and we moved on to other topics.

      Don’t let the question throw off what could be a great job. I ended up working for XXX for six years and learned a great deal about executive leadership watching him in action. Years later I asked him about the question. He laughed “I remember that. Your face said you’ve had it covered and I really didn’t need to know anything else.”

      Relay that you have it covered. Short and sweet. They don’t need to know who is providing your child care. It doesn’t matter if the care givers are in-laws, day-care providers, au pairs, a stay-at-home spouse or house trained kangaroos. They just need confirmation you have a system in place.

      We all have home lives, not just business lives so have your line or two down before you interview. I agree with what others have posted, they don’t need details they just need to know it’s not an issue….and good luck!

      PS Penelope, do you know many men volunteer this info during the interview process?

  • Mailbag 11:42 pm on December 10, 2012 Permalink  

    My last boss hates me. What can I say in the interview? 

    I was in a gender harassment situation that I left about two years ago, and did not really think about my future as I was exiting the situation. I have had a lot of personal trauma around the experience, and realize that I can’t use my last job for reference even though I was there for five years. What should I do? I still need to be able to work.

     

    • Penelope Trunk 11:43 pm on December 10, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Just start looking for another job, and don’t worry about the last boss not liking you.

      Most people will not ask to call your last job as a reference. If someone asks for a reference, just give them the name of someone else. It’s okay. Plenty of people can’t use their last job as a reference. Talk about your last job like it was great, and you were great at it,
      and say you left because you needed a break – which is true, you did need a break. Say now you’re ready to go back to work and you’re excited to do a good job again.

      Don’t be hesitant about saying that you were a great performer at the last job. That’s what’ll get you another job. It doesn’t matter if your last boss thought you were a top performer or not. It matters what you say you were. It’s subjective.

      Penelope

    • downfromtheledge 7:39 am on December 11, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I feel your pain. I came close to committing suicide as a result of harrassment from a boss. When I quit, my next 4 years consisted of being suicidal and unemployed. So right now I have to count myself lucky that I am only *underemployed* and making half of what I am worth, because not having references (and now a spotty employment record) has f*cked me over.

      Nearly every employment application I have filled out DOES require the name of your previous boss, or requires you to list 3 supervisory references – not just colleagues – and you can’t just leave a required field empty. Or it can be very conspicuous to leave off….and there are certain fields like education where they are just going to call your previous principal, and there’s no hiding who it was.

      This is a very real employment barrier that can’t just be talked away with a positive attitude, and not everyone is a great bullshitter who can lie their way through an interview. I had my most confident interview ever 2 weeks ago for a job I am more than qualified for…answered all the tough questions about my gaps in employment…doesn’t seem to matter what explanation I give, because I have tried them all. To no avail.

    • Morgan 3:35 pm on December 11, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Employees put way too much weight on references. Most companies won’t even give out a reference, even if you’ve specifically given permission – there is way too much liability. Future employers may call to verify employment, but that’s about the extent of it.

    • Jen 11:07 am on December 12, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Morgan is right. The last several companies I’ve worked for had a policy of only providing confirmation of dates of employment and nothing else for past employees. They would provide salary confirmation only if the employee requested it. The easiest way to handle this is to list the general number for HR at the employer. They will call and get the basic verification that way. If asked directly about your previous supervisor just state that you haven’t kept in touch.

    • WorkinProgress 10:36 am on January 8, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      I had this experience with my last job. My boss and I were like oil and vingar. I asked a colleague to please be a reference for me. I basically said, “I know BOSS and I didn’t always see eye-to-eye. Would you be able to talk about some projects we did together, my personality and work ethic?”

      My colleauge left me a very kind voicemail that said, “No problem about BOSS. I’m happy to be a reference.”

      Sometimes honesty really is the best policy.

  • Mailbag 8:50 am on October 12, 2012 Permalink  

    Are temp jobs a dead end? 

    I graduated from college with a degree in English in 2008.

    I started a temp job at a goverment agency. My boss loved me and even recommended me for
    a position in another department. Unfortunately, since it was temporary I could not stay. Then I interviewed for an admin position at a top 100 company in Rochester, NY and I was hired over an internal employee by my manager. Unfortunately this position wasn’t paying my bills and student loans, so I obtained another position at the University of Rochester as an admin. My job was to provide administrative support to the chief physician of the department. This is probably the most miserable position I have ever had; and instead of leaving when I knew I should, I ended up being let go by my company.

    After that I started a temp postion at a company I loved, and I earned some great references. I was offered an interview for a customer service position but I ended up turing it down for a temporary editorial assistant position in Baltimore, MD. I was sort of thrown into this position as the editorial assistant and coordinator were leaving in a week. After a short time, they claimed that my Excel skills were not up to their standards, and I was let go from this temporary assignment.

    I recently had the same experience at another company as a temporary employee. –I’m not certain how I can have so much success (being hired over an internal, being recommended for alternate departments, generally being well liked and respected) at some companies and being denied employment at other companies as a temporary employee.

    Do you have any insight into temporary employment vs.full time opportunities? At the last temporary position I had I felt that I was let go due to a personality conflict with another employee. I am an incredibly conscientious person and I honestly do not feel this was my fault. It’s hard for me not to take these things to heart as I felt that I was the one being mistreated, but because I was a temporary employee it was ultimately their opinion over mine.

     

    • Penelope Trunk 8:56 am on October 12, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Temp jobs are a great way to get a staff job.

      Most temporary employes in the types of jobs you have had end up getting hired as staff employees. In the positions you are taking, people are looking at temps as possible hires. They are seeing if they like the temp.

      The truth is that people do not like working with you. They don’t like your personality. They get a good chance to know you as a temp, and if you were very likable, one of these companies — probably more than one — would have hired you.

      I think you have social skills issues. I think your social skills are probably not as strong as they need to be to get a good job, and that’s where you should focus your energy right now. It’s not just that you rub people the wrong way, but also you do a very poor job of reading how people are responding to you. People are courteous to you and you interpret that as them liking you. There is a big difference.

      Here is a way to think about adult life: Ninety percent of jobs in the world can be done by more than a million people. So you cannot get a job because you are the most qualified for it — because there will be so many people who are equally as qualified as you. You get a job by being the person they like best. It’s a popularity contest and you need to be likable. I don’t think you are understanding this part.

      Here are some posts I’ve written to get you thinking about social skills in a different way. Ultimately, though, I think you’ll probably need some sort of coaching.

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/07/18/social-skills-matter-more-than-ever-so-heres-how-to-get-them/

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/12/14/secret-social-skills-successful-people-know/

      Penelope

    • Avodah 12:56 pm on October 17, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I studied English in undergrad and religious studies in grad school. I’m making a career change from academia to finance (long story, happy to email privately, if you want).

      I got a temp job as an EA at at large, prestigious financial firm, I recently was hired on a permanent capacity, and I am very happy.

      Penelope said something that resonated deeply w/ me, and I think it could help you. Read! Reading will improve your social skills and ability to navigate the workforce. Read classics, and carefully consider what you like, dislike, can’t stand, love or admire about characters. Consider how other characters react to them (and in different situations). Lastly, what good and bad qualities do you see in characters that you may see in yourself?

      Your English degree wasn’t for naught!

    • cortney 9:27 pm on November 8, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      who do you recommend for this type of coaching? is it something that you do?

    • Penelope Trunk 11:37 pm on November 8, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Yes! I do this sort of coaching. You can email me to talk about it: penelope@penelopetrunk.com.

    • NS 10:12 pm on November 24, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I think Penelope’s advice is very good.

      I would add a distinction though. You have good enough social skills to get hired – as you have been hired as a temp, hired over even an internal candidate etc. Your “long-term” social skills are what are letting you down. People don’t like working with you long-term. For an hour-long interview you do OK, but it’s the day-in, day-out social skills that you need to work on.

      I suggest you try to get some feedback from previous employers. And don’t just dismiss the personality conflict you had with another employee. Take a hard look at what you could have done to prevent it, or at least to prevent it escalating.

  • Mailbag 6:45 am on October 6, 2012 Permalink  

    Should I work where my boyfriend works? 

    I’m about two years out of college and I was wondering if you had some advice for me. What would you do if you were offered a job at the same office as your boyfriend? I interviewed at the same company, but at a different branch. It looks like I may be offered a position at his location.

     

    • Penelope Trunk 6:47 am on October 6, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      It’s not ideal. If you have another option that’s almost as good, I’d probably take that option. Otherwise, just play it really cool at work.

      To be honest, it hurts you a lot more than it hurts him. You get tons of attention for being a young woman — older men just like being around you. Having your boyfriend there means you’ll get a lot less of that attention which is, in the end, bad for your career.

      Here’s one statistic, among a gazillion, to support what I’m saying: Uinversity of Santa Cruz ran a study about women who get mentoring. And most men who mentor women do it, in part, because there’s attraction there. I know this is not the perfect world, but it’s reality. And you’d get better mentoring if your boyfriend were not circling you at work.

      Penelope

    • Me 8:09 pm on October 9, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Your response is spot-on.

    • Avodah 11:52 am on October 10, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I agree with Penelope’s points. Although, I have a few questions:

      1.) Is it possible to work in an entirely different department? At some companies, accountants and salespeople never see one another, and it is almost like they work for two different companies.

      2.) Is there another location at which one of you may work? You mentioned two branches.

  • Mailbag 7:08 am on September 21, 2012 Permalink  

    I’m muslim and wear a veil. How can I interview better? 

    I was recently reading your interview advice for a phone interview I had for a teaching position at an elementary school in Michigan. Apparently I did really well and the interviewer subtly indicated that I would be invited to an in-person interview, which is really great. The only problem I have is that I wear a veil over my face, I’m Muslim. I was reading your advice on acing interviews and I’m not sure how to increase my likability factor, or to make myself more like the interviewers. Short of taking off the veil, do you have any ideas for how I can increase my likability and still get the job with the veil on?

     

    • Penelope Trunk 7:09 am on September 21, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Well, this is a great reason why people would say wearing a veil holds women back – because its so difficult to connect with people outside your home.

      People connect with faces. Your ability to support yoursel depends on being to connect with people outside your home. Honestly, I dont know how you would get a job wearing a veil. Because you can’t compete with people who can use a much wider range of social cues to do their job well.

      Not that you asked, but maybe a good compromise is covering everything but your face. In that case, I think you’d do fine on the workplace.

      And, I’m wondering, what do you think about this reply? You must have done way more thinking on this topic than i have. I am curious.

      Penelope

    • Anonymous 7:11 am on September 21, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I appreciate your response, Penelope. Thank you.

      At first I was frustrated because it doesn’t help me at all. I understand why you’ve said it and I acknowledge that it’s true but, I’m not satisfied with my two options being that I either sit home or take off my veil.

      I’ve interviewed successfully for positions before, but the stakes are higher this time. The interviewer said over 2,000 people have applied but that I’m looking pretty good when compared to the competition. I am quite charismatic and easy to talk to, but I have an anxiety disorder which usually dominates the first few meetings with people that I’m intimidated by. I’ll either have to somehow meet with the principal before the actual interview (that might show I’m really interested but hopefully not over-eager) or consider wearing a half-veil that shows my eyebrows and forehead (in the hopes that my enthusiasm will somehow seep through my eyebrows) in addition to my eyes.

      The only thing worse than not getting the position would be to not interview for it.

    • Avodah 9:05 am on September 21, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      A few things here.
      1.) It is my understanding that Muslim women are not obligated to cover their faces. That is a custom followed by some branches but not a law. (Just as Orthodox Jewish women are not obligated by Jewish law to wear wigs, they need only cover their hair.)

      2.) I studied Orthodox Judaism for my graduate degree. It is very common for Orthodox men to get special permission to remove their kippah at work. The reason behind this halachic (Jewish law) ruling is that one cannot serve God without having a roof over their head and food. If you can’t work, you can’t provide those things for yourself.

      3.) Is there a spiritual advisor with whom you could speak about this? Maybe you can get an exception for the interview.

      4.) Ms. Trunk touches upon mroe esoteric understandings of “the face” that have been addressed by Emanuel Levinas. The face is what makes us human and allows others to see us to see the humanity in others (Buber’s “thou”). How do you want to be seen?

    • Avodah 9:09 am on September 22, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      On a related note, I found this article in Marie Claire http://www.marieclaire.com/career-money/jobs/ethnicity-in-the-workplace

      Maybe it will shed some light on your situation?

      Also, my previous post have suggested that I think that Orthodox Judaism’s laws are “the same” as your religion’s- certainly not the case! Just trying to draw some comparisons and hopefully give a new angle on your conundrum. Keep us posted as the interview process goes along!

    • Sadya 6:58 am on September 27, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Choosing a mainstream occupation but being a part of a clique is the real problem here. The lady is hoping that the schools will look past the veil – they might, but the parents won’t. And while it is important for school kids to learn and understand diversity, it is more important for them to learn social cues at their age.

      Suppose instead of Michigan you were living in France. What would you do then? You would have to either do away with the face veil or be at home. You would have to make a choice. So why the qualms here? Working moms give up their careers to stay with their kids- its discriminatory, but they are clear on what’s important to them. And that’s pretty much what you need to be clear on.

      FYI- I’m a Muslim woman living in Pakistan, and I do not wear or endorse the face veil or head scarf.

    • Danielle 9:06 am on September 27, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      This is a great discussion! I am a converted Muslim and cover my head. I would like to tell a bit of my story to address this topic.
      I live in Pakistan where many people do (and many people dont, like Sadya). I dont stand out here because I am doing what many others are doing. Islam asks women to be conservative. It actually does not ask us to cover our faces anywhere in the Quran. The trouble is, when I go to Australia (my home country), if I wear a scarf I am stared at because I look so different, and people have often negative ideas about Muslims. To me this is not what Islam is about… it is not about me being stared at. In fact it is quite the opposite. It asks me to protect my modesty. Now if everyone i walk past is staring at me, that is not protecting my modesty- right?
      My solution is to wear a hat that covers all my hair… luckily these are pretty fashionable these days and there are plenty of them around. I also wear a scarf around my neck and loose clothes. This way I am modest, can still be stylish, and not attract any attention. I am not a walking billboard for Islam and I dont need to be. My Islam is on the inside and is between me and God. It has nothing to do with the other people around me – they dont need to know if I am a muslim or not.

      I guess what I am saying is that as muslims, it is important that we dont lose sight of the reason we are covering ourselves in the first place. Dont you think?

    • Alicia 12:59 am on September 28, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Danielle, I just had to respond to your comment here. I too am a muslim, and I live in Australia. I don’t wear a veil/hijab because of the reasons you said – modesty is about people ignoring you as a sex object and treating you as a person, not having people stare at you.

      I guess we’re getting a bit off-topic here, but it’s nice to talk with careeristic muslim women :)

      As for the OP, I do agree that parents may be a bit of an issue. I know there are sects where women cover their faces, and I suppose that when you have to interact with people it will always be an issue (how much depends on who you’re interacting with).

      • Danielle 8:43 am on September 28, 2012 Permalink | Reply

        Very happy to hear from you as well! I am also Australian and would love to stay in contact if you would like. My email is danielle@writeon-it.com.

    • Penelope Trunk 7:18 am on September 28, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I am so excited that this conversation is going on here. I just want to say thank you to you guys. This is one of my all-time favorite career discussions on my site. I have learned so much about the world, and the discussion will help other women to figure out how they want to assert themselves in the world.

      So, this is just me saying thank you.

      Penelope

    • Avodah 6:10 pm on September 29, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      @ Danielle, great points! It is about each of our personal relationships with God and living a life that honors God and our fellow humans. When your observance impedes that- its time to, at very least, start questioning some things.

    • Aaron 9:13 pm on October 14, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      You’re interviewing for a position with 2,000 other applicants? Well god job getting to the interview! I guess I’m wondering: is there a way to pursue a position in your profession that isn’t listed publicly? By building a network, you can get the inside track for a job before the teeming hoardes know about it, and it might render the question of the veil less critical either way.

    • Jess 4:30 am on December 15, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I am curious what happened with you interview. Also, with all due respect, I wonder if you are using the veil to shield the anxiety disorder, which you mentioned. Perhaps you can get some counseling to ease out of your anxiety and then you don’t have to rely on the veil, which others have mentioned are not required in Islam- especially in Michigan. Good luck.

  • Mailbag 10:42 am on April 30, 2012 Permalink  

    Does social media favor extroverts? 

    When I was using Google asking how to start a blog your name came up. I took your message to just begin and ran with it. That was a few months ago and I still do not feel as though I have a direction or voice yet but I truly enjoy it as a creative outlet.

    I have read many of your posts and the other day came across one where you were talking about Twitter.  I have an aversion to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all the Pinterest, all of the social media for the masses.  I have taken the Myers Briggs test 4 times professionally and always an INFP.  Since you are a Myers Briggs fan do you think Introverts are on Twitter or is it the 75 percent Extroverted population that find it so lovable?

     

    • Penelope Trunk 10:49 am on April 30, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      First, as background, here are the two posts we’re referencing:

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/penelopes-guide-to-blogging/

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/02/10/twitter-can-save-your-life/

      The short answer is that extroverts do not have an advantage in social media. Social media is about sharing ideas and caring about people, and introverts can do these things as well as extroverts.

      That said, today, 95% of all communication online is through social media. The last 5% is email. No kidding. This means that if you want to be relevant in today’s workforce you have to pick some social media tools you are comfortable with and start using them.

      I like blogging because I think it provides the largest range of benefits for the least amount of work. I know this sounds counter-intuitive because writing a blog post is more work than, say, writing a tweet. But a blog is about your own ideas and a tweet is about sharing other peoples’ ideas. So you get more mileage sharing your own ideas.

      A blog is not about getting traffic. A blog is about finding a way to convey your ideas so people can quickly understand how your brain works when they want to get to know you. So, with that as the goal, maybe you are doing a better job on your blog than you realize. And, if you are not interested in sharing your ideas, you should figure out why.. who wouldn’t want to be known for how their mind works?

      I did a series of webinars about how to get benefits from blogging without having a lot of traffic. You can get a job, meet new people, rise up in your field quickly, all sorts of stuff that does not require a lot of traffic. Here is a link to the webinar series:

      http://brazenu.com/secrets-of-an-a-list-blogger-a-week-with-penelope-trunk/

      Penelope

    • Rachel 5:16 pm on May 10, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      What’s up with the Twitter post? It seems to be cut off just after beginning of point number 2 (of 5).

    • Penelope Trunk 7:23 am on May 14, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks for letting me know, Rachel. I fixed it.

      Penelope

  • Mailbag 2:39 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink  

    Followup after an informational interview 

    I’ve been doing informational phone appointments with people who are employed in the industry I hope to be in (financial services).  I’ve been very lucky to have “chemistry” with all of my contacts.  However, I am not sure how to follow up with them as my graduation date (and need for employment!) approaches.

    How does one follow-up with contacts after an informational phone appointment? Does one ask for a job? Ask for more contacts? Ask if the contact knows of any jobs? Ask for an in-person meeting?

     

     

    • Penelope Trunk 2:46 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      First of all, try to get the informational interview in person. Meeting face-to-face makes it more likely that you can get the person to feel invested in helping you. That’s the goal of an informational interview – that the person likes you so much that they help you get a job.

      The person can like you in two ways. Either the person genuinely connects with you and wants you in their life, or the person recognizes that you’ll be a star and they want to be associated with you because it will make them look good.

      In any case, you don’t want to ask directly for a job – if they really like you, and they ahve a job open, they’ll say something. Instead, figure out how they can help you get to a job. Advice, connections, things like that. The hardest part of making the informational interview matter is to be able to think of ways to get the person to help you after the interview is over. The questions are the hard part, but asking the questions and showing that you take action based on the answer – and then asking another question — this is the process that makes someone feel more and more invested in your success and therefore more and more willing to go out on a limb for you to get you a job.

      Here are some posts about how to ask good questions.
      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/05/06/five-tips-for-asking-better-questions/

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/09/whats-a-good-question-whats-a-good-answer/

      Good luck with your job hunt!

      Penelope

  • Mailbag 9:05 am on March 26, 2012 Permalink  

    How to get a job in a different city 

    Do you have advice for trying to relocate across country and find a job? Does one need to lie and say you are actually in the new town? It seems like they can find that out in a background check. They seem to be more interested in local candidates, even when I stress I would pay for my own move.

    I just cannot afford to quit and go live in the town in order to interview because of overhead.

     

     

     

     

    • Penelope Trunk 9:09 am on March 26, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      People will not interview you if they think they need to relocate you themselves. Why would they do that? There are plenty of local candidates to hire and it’s easier. So you need to overcome this problem to get a job in a new city.

      Step one: Put a local address on your resume. It’s not a lie to give a local address on your resume. Tons of people have multiple addresses. You are giving the address where you will get mail if you are in that city. The person reading the resume draws the conclusion that you are living in the city already. Your goal with a resume is to get an interview.

      Step two: Fly to an interview if you get one. Tell the interviewer you will be relocating permanently in three weeks. Which would be true, if you got the job. So it’s fine to say it in the interview. If you have to go through a phone screen first, tell the interviewer that you are planning to move in three weeks but you will be in town the next week and you can interview then. This takes the pressure off the interviewer worrying that they are dragging you into town for an interview – they don’t want to feel that they are doing that.

      If you do not have a the resources to get to the new city for an interview and you don’t have the resources to move without a job then you don’t have the resources to move. Only very, very hard-to-fill positions allow for paying for travel to interview a candidate.

      Penelope

    • Sasha 10:10 am on March 26, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Thank you. I just was stalled on interview #2 with a company and so I sent them an email saying “I would like to fly there for a face-to-face meeting. What is your availability?” and then next thing I knew they wanted to interview me for a job in current city. I had to tell them “Sorry, would love to work for you but my goal is to relocate, I already have a residence and I am paying for my own relocation” Ughhh!

    • Adam 4:41 pm on March 27, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I made the move from Vancouver Canada to San Diego CA last summer. I applied to several hundred jobs using a San Diego address I had pulled from the internet, and managed to land 6 interviews. I scheduled them for the same week, put everything I owned in a U-Haul, and drove on down.

      I landed 2 of the jobs, took my pick, and signed a lease. It can definitely be done. However, I had a contingency plan that included steel-toed boots in case I landed no jobs and had to work laboring somewhere until I got something legitimate.

      Best of luck! Dive in head first, you’ll never no how it will work if you don’t try!

      And if it makes you feel less nervous, I had a wife and son who came with me.

    • Adam 4:44 pm on March 27, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Wondering if my usage of “no” instead of “know” twice was some sort of Freudian thing…

  • Mailbag 2:22 pm on March 23, 2012 Permalink  

    Tricks for doing an all-day interview 

    I have an interview that is three hours in the morning and three hours in the afternoon with six different people. I have done interviews much shorter than this one and I was dog tired at the end. I’m not even sure why a company would have me come in for such a long time because it seems like overkill. What is the best way for me to prepare for this interview?

     

    • Penelope Trunk 2:36 pm on March 23, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      The trick to doing this sort of a day well is to know your answers cold. Here’s why:

      1. They are deciding if they like you. It’s a likability interview. The best way to get them to like you is to tell stories as answers to their questions. People like to hear stories and they make people feel more connected to you than straight-up answers. You want to leave them that day with them feeling like they are already connected to you and hiring you is naturally the next step.

      Here’s a post about how to tell stories:
      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/02/04/be-memorable-by-telling-good-stories-about-yourself/

      Here’s a post about how to be more likable in general:
      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/06/how-to-make-yourself-more-likable/

      2. If you know your stories cold, and each question is a breeze for you then you are less likely to get tired throughout the day. If you don’t know your stories cold or you haven’t practiced answering the obvious questions (and turning non-obvious questions into more obvious ones so you can answer them) then you will be more tired toward the end of the day and this will affect your ability to connect with them.

      Here’s a post on practicing interview questions:
      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2005/11/20/interview-mistakes-you-shouldnt-make/

      The best thing about practicing for one interview is that the practice works for all interviews. Each time you practice talking about yourself, and steering the conversation you are preparing for all the interviews in your future, not just the one the next day.

      Penelope

    • Lindsay 7:33 pm on March 24, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I just went through this and you DO get tired. I went into it thinking it was a panel interview, and it ended up being 6 hour long interviews. When I had to answer the “walk me through your resume” for the sixth time I think I sounded a little annoyed. I also started to lose my voice, so make sure you bring water or ask for some!

    • Mark W. 6:35 pm on March 25, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      It occurs to me the interview situation with six different people over the period of six hours could be worse. You could have all six people together in the same room with yourself asking questions at random with maybe a five or ten minute break at the end of each hour. That’s how I imagine it must be for an attorney giving oral arguments in front of a panel of judges (e.g. – Supreme Court). At least that’s what it sounds like when I listen to the Supreme Court audio on C-Span.
      Anyways, I have done this six hour interview circuit with six different people in one day. I thought it was a smart thing for them to do. It gives each one of them the opportunity to ask questions and get answers from you. They can then all get together as one group or separately to discuss their impressions of you. By doing it this way, I think they can formulate a better overall and balanced opinion of you and determine if you would be a good fit for the company. And if you are a good fit for them, where in the company it would be … at least initially.
      I would recommend getting a good night’s sleep before this long interview day so that you’re at your “relaxed best”. I think it’s most important to be yourself with everyone that interviews you. If you can do that, then I think you will project a single, consistent personality which will not raise doubts about you or your abilities. It is about likability. It’s also about trust and ultimately they’re asking themselves – Could I work with this person x hours a day and x days a week? Then they select whom they consider the best candidate for their needs.

    • emily 9:07 am on March 26, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      You want to leave the day of interviews feeling like every single person you talked to gave the thumbs up about you after they left the room. When you leave write down your impressions of every person you talked to and even ask to have a repeat interview with someone that may have struck you a little differently than the others. That person will most likely be the one that you will have to work with most closely to make your job meaningful and manageable.

  • Mailbag 12:20 am on March 19, 2012 Permalink  

    Getting a job right out of school 

    I finished my BA in English more than a year ago, and I want to work in PR. Even though I’ve sent out more than 5000 resumes, I have only gotten one interview…

    Can you take a look at my resume and tell me if I can make it better?

    I don’t know what to do to find a job. Do you think you can help me?

     

    • Penelope Trunk 12:22 am on March 19, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I took a quick look at your resume. You’re very entry-level, which means there is nothing that makes you different from all the other entry level people. That’s okay — everyone starts out this way.

      But the way you get a job at this point in your career is that you have to meet someone. You need to meet someone who knows someone who has a job opening. You will get a job because you are smart and likable, not because you have qualifications. There are a million people with your qualifications, so the only way you can stand out is being smart and likable. And you can’t get an interview from this resume, you have to get an interview by meeting someone in person and them passing your name to the person who is interviewing.

      Penelope

    • Mailbag 12:25 am on March 19, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I know I am supposed to network, but I have been meeting so many people. I am having trouble finding more people to meet in my field.

    • Penelope Trunk 12:27 am on March 19, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      You don’t need to meet people “in your field.” You don’t have a field. Every company in the whole world does some kind of PR/marketing. But whatever. It’s not like you are qualified to run someone’s marketing. You are qualified to work for someone who does that. So you’ll be entry level. And you can be entry level anything and learn right now. You just need to get into a company and be smart. From there you can get yourself to the type of work you want to be doing.

      So forget meeting people “in your field”. You should just meet tons of different people. Try tons of new things. Go to new places. And talk about yourself like you are doing fun things and excited about what you are doing and learning. Don’t talk aobut yourself as frustrated and unemployed. People want to hire excited people not frustrated people.

      I know this is hard. But you have to fake it a little. And this is true throughout life — adult life is hard for every single person.Just some people are more honest about it.

      Penelope

    • Brigitte 2:19 am on March 19, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      This is excellent advice. I got my break into a PR agency by telling a dude at a party that I was looking for work. I’m pretty certain we were both drunk at the time. He told me to e-mail him on Monday, I did, and my resume got passed around. He was at a different PR firm from the one that hired me (Hill & Knowlton). It’s kind of crazy thinking back on it. I can’t remember his name; he was dating a friend of mine (whose name I also can’t remember).

      PR is a particularly difficult field to get into, because everyone who identifies as creative (but is too scared to do something actually creative) wants to work for an agency. Good luck.

    • KK 9:54 am on March 19, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I was offered a job as an associate at a top PR firm in NYC after working for them as a temporary administrative assistant. Admins in PR firms do basically the same work as low level Associates and when a position becomes available – it’s easy for them to slot you in

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