Where to Live

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  • Mailbag 7:26 am on September 10, 2012 Permalink  

    How can you tell adventure from escapism? 

    I’m re-reading the book, Do What You Are, and, as an INFP know I need to find work that is meaningful and feels authentic. I struggle with the part of me that also feel a great need for adventure, travel, and spontaneity. This seems missing from a lot of the research I’m finding. Are some people just genuinely restless? How can you tell if the urge to live/travel elsewhere, make new friends and lovers in foreign places, is your authentic self coming out or a form of escapeism?

     
    • Penelope Trunk 7:36 am on September 10, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      First, I love the book Do What You Are. For those who have not read it, it’s a way to find your Myers Briggs score and then find jobs that are consistent with the core needs of your personality. In this case, an INFP has to do work that has larger meaning in the world.

      The issue with leaving the country is that it prolongs the difficult process of finding a place for yourself in the world. You need to find a job, and you need to figure out how to meet a guy and have kids before your biological clock runs out.

      If you want new friends there are plenty of people in the US who will be exotic to you. Go to a rural town. Go to a housing project. Those people will be way more foreign to you than a college graduate raised in Paris.

      The draw to going to a foreign country instead of finding a job is similar to the draw of going on vacation: nothing counts. You can’t work in a foreign country because you don’t have a visa.

      You can’t find a serious boyfriend because you probably want to have kids, you probably want to raise them where you have family. Which means you probably don’t want to meet someone who loves their own country and doesn’t want to leave. So it’s just escapism.

      In your early twenties you have nothing in the US except the problem that you have to start adult life. So it’s enticing to leave. But if you leave, you never solve that problem. So you may as well stay.

      Also, there is honestly nothing more novel in life than transitioning from being a student to having to work to support yourself. If you acknowledge what a difficult time of life you are in, you would not seek out even more novelty. You have enough novelty for anyone. This is a very tough transition.

      Penelope

    • channa 11:40 pm on September 17, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I lived abroad with my husband for a year at age 27. We were the only married people I knew there but we met five different expat couples – four of the couples had met each other there. In the last five years they’ve all gotten married. So I think being an expat is a great way to meet a spouse, although it can be inconvenient to marry someone from another country – but hey your kids will be bilingual.

      I also think it can be great for your career. You can work if you get a visa for teaching or nonprofit work, or you can volunteer and live off savings or do digital freelance. Several people I know followed their time abroad with Ivy League or similar grad schools (including me), UN positions, Gates Foundation etc., or entrepreneurship. Others taught English abroad and decided to become credentialed teachers – it’s a great way to de-risk that decision. And if you have a skill that is rare in your destination you can vault much more quickly to the top – my cousin who is an orthopedist was directing a clinic in southeast asia before she turned 30; management and training experience that it would have taken her years to earn in the U.S.

      So having done it, I say live abroad no question. And especially if you need meaningful work — I honestly don’t believe it’s possible to know the meaning of life and the world and history if you’ve never lived in a 3rd world country.

    • Lorelei 6:15 am on September 24, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I agree with the commenter above. I’m 30 and have been living abroad since I was 26. I didn’t do it to run away, but instead, to follow my partner and to try something new. At first I was hitting a roadblock with my career, so I went home. Landed a job in my field within a month and a half of being home. Missed my partner. Decided to quit my job to come back to my partner, but this time decided to be serious about finding a career and enrolled into grad school in a nearby city so that I could have a network in a country that was foreign to me. It doesn’t have to be grad school, but I would recommend setting up some kind of network for yourself when you move abroad (a job, a club, an internship, etc…). Because I moved to a non-English speaking Western European country that values higher education, and I am career-minded, I chose the grad school route so that I could compete for jobs with the highly educated locals. In hindsight, this turned out to be a great idea because I was able to network and get my dream job.

      As someone who had the desire to live abroad and then did it, I think you should too. Even if you go away and it doesn’t work out, at least you’ve tried. But if you are scared that you are running away from real life, then don’t. Set yourself up properly while abroad. Assuming you will know no one when you arrive, look for viable networking opportunities; find out how to get a work visa; what are the in-demand skills of your desired country? Do all of this legwork before you go and know that you will have to constantly work at it while abroad if you want seriously want to set yourself up in another country. If you just want to go on vacation, then go on vacation. But that is different from living abroad.

      Good luck!

    • Dave D 12:18 pm on October 10, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I also agree with the two responders and very much disagree w/Penelope. The original poster does not relate their age but he/she obviously hasn’t settled on a career. Not sure where you pick up that he/she is female but your supposition that he/she will find more exotic-ness in a rural town vs. a grad in Paris is seriously flawed and uncovers a bias. First off, how far along in education is this person? A freshman? He/she may already have a job but feels drawn to do it, or something else, internationally. So your vacation analogy goes right out the window. In today’s world a stint elsewhere may be highly desired. Many people get a visa. Work overseas, even if temporarily or for short business trips. It may even be part of the job. And who said this person was in their twenties?

      Having an international bent is far different then the college age desire for gap year travel abroad. This is where novelty and escapism diverge from finding a vocation, perhaps in NGO’s, etc. Not sure which is what this person seeks but I think we should recognize the difference. I think Channa’s remarks are also relevant.

  • Mailbag 10:19 am on March 20, 2012 Permalink  

    Making the best of a bad relocation 

    My husband and I moved across the country last year – from a city of  2,000,000 to a town of 80,000. I am finding the transition very difficult. Besides missing our family and friends terribly, our new town is, well, just quiet. I do not see anything interesting or positive in our new home town, and I am miserable. We moved because of a job opportunity for my husband, so moving back isn’t an option right now.

     How do I start to see the positive in the situation?  I want to make the most of this, but most days I just can’t change my mindset.
     
    • Penelope Trunk 10:29 am on March 20, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I think probably you need to think of moving out of there as a option.

      If he needs to move to a terrible location for a job now, why won’t he have to do it five more times in the next 50 years? it’s kind of a mindset – like, if you think it’s an option to make a terrible move for work once, then you’ll probalby do it again. Job hunting is about discipline – not applying to jobs that will ruin your life.

      So i know this isn’t what you want to hear, but i think you and your husband need to reassess where catering to his worklife fits into the big picture. i think things are skewed right now. You are totally normal to feel bad about moving away from friends and family. If there is one rule about relocating for a job it is that almost no amount of money is worth doing that for.

      Here is the research behind that thinking:

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/05/21/how-to-decide-where-to-live-2/

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2012/02/11/7-big-relocation-mistakes/

      Now I am going to pre-empt some of the arguments you will have about why you can’t move:

      1. Your husband can leave this job after a very short time and not put it on his resume. So, in interviews he can say he’s leaving because he realized living in a small city won’t work. That is reasonable. And in the long term, he can leave this job off his resume and no one will even realize he did a short stint at a job that didn’t work out.

      2. I think your husband would be surprised to hear that high performers don’t need to take jobs that make their spouses miserable. High performers do not send resumes to places they don’t want to live. They accept that limitation and expect themselves to get great jobs anyway.

      3. If you husband truly is unemployable near your friends and family then it is probably worth it to you — for your own happiness and sanity – to move back to friends and family and get a job yourself and support you guys. Your husband can do something that doesn’t pay, or pays low. Many couples do this sort of arrangement. The point is for the breadwinner situation to be what’s right for the whole family.

      Good luck.
      Penelope

    • Colleen 10:55 am on March 20, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      I agree–best to start thinking of ways to get out now, otherwise the town will start sinking its hooks deeper and deeper into you and you’ll have more and more reasons why you can’t leave, all the while still feeling miserable. That’s how it’s been for me moving to a town of 5,000. I am finally taking the steps to move even though financially it doesn’t look smart.

    • Burdell 11:29 am on March 20, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Amen @Colleen. I did a move just like the letter writer many years ago, so by now we have kids who were BORN in this town and this is all they know. At this point I realize I must forget about being near my own friends-family so that my kids can stay in their own hometown.

    • Homesick 11:38 am on March 20, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Thank you very much! I really appreciate it. You give good advice, even when it isn’t what you want to hear.

      I had sent a second question in, which gives a bit more context for our situation (I separated the questions, because it became convoluted in my mind and I couldn’t phrase the questions properly), although your advice stands without the additional context.

      We are out here because my husband is a PhD in humanities – there are very few professor jobs that come up each year, so if you are going to do this career, then you have to accept that you are going to move around and live in less-than-ideal locations. The second question I sent in was around how to know when to quit your career and start over. One the one hand, he is in a good position to get a position closer to home (should one come up), he has been published in a top-tier peer reviewed journal. On the other hand, I feel like we are playing some sick gambling game – we keep putting more money (in our case time) down on the table, and are losing, but don’t want to quit because we are so invested, and the next hand dealt could be the winning one.

      But back to the original question and response:

      I didn’t give the whole story/history in the question – which makes your point #3 interesting. I have been the primary breadwinner while my husband was doing his PhD – and I still make more (double) what he does (being a contract professor is not lucrative – the money comes when you get tenure). So the back-up plan of moving back with me as the breadwinner is something we can do. I worry about how he would feel about this though – having made such an investment in his education and having it amount to little career-wise.

    • Penelope Trunk 12:18 pm on March 20, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      You have such a great handle on your issues. I mean, you lay them out really well, and I think that’s often the biggest hurdle to solving problems.

      I think your husband is going to have to admit that most people with a PhD in humanities are not able to use their degree to create a solid life as an adult. The only time you know you are staying in one place is when you get tenure. You basically give up all control over location, and the timing of your moves.

      Unless you are at the very very top of your field, the chances of you ever gaining control are slim. Especially in humanities where the glut of PhDs is the subject of huge discussion and controversy in the academic world. I think if your husband can see that this is the case, then he can start over.

      Your analogy to gambling is really good. You have an ability to support the family in a city you want to live in. Go do that. Your husband needs time and space to figure out a new plan for his life. But he doesn’t need to be in this dead-end job in a dead-end town in order to do that.

      Penelope

    • Homesick 12:41 pm on March 20, 2012 Permalink | Reply

      Thank you very, very, very much.

      Its funny, deep down I know what the answer is, I just don’t want to admit it to myself. It is so logical. Talking about it with you makes things much clearer.

  • Mailbag 4:57 am on October 26, 2011 Permalink  

    Should I Leave NYC? 

    I’m a 22 year-old working in New York City. I have a decent-paying job as a journalist that is (to me) meaningful, challenging, intellectually stimulating, and offers a lot of opportunity for growth, on-the-job-training, and networking with others in my field. I can afford my rent and I have health benefits—money would be tighter if I had student loans, but I don’t.

    The negative: I’m from the Midwest, and I really loved my life there. Since moving to NYC to start my career, I’ve been miserable: I left a loving partner and amazing friends behind and am lonely constantly. I don’t feel like I can connect with most people my age because they are still in school or are bumming around in retail jobs or living with their parents. Everyone I work with keeps me at arms length because I’m 5 to 10 years their junior. My job takes up most of my life, making it hard to schedule things in advance or take an evening or weekend class that meets regularly. I have no idea how I should be spending my free time. I am constantly homesick.
    I feel like my career is on the right track, but I’m afraid that living in NYC as a sad and lonely 20-something with no ties will become unbearable and I’ll give up. I’m probably a few years ahead of the curve in life but I don’t know how to appreciate it or take advantage of it.
    Is this a non-problem? When I write it out I feel like I’m just whining over nothing, but I feel really deeply effected by this.
     
    • Penelope Trunk 4:59 am on October 26, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      It’s fine to move back to the Midwest. It’s fine to be homesick. It’s fine to not like NYC. These are all rational feelings that well-adjusted people have.

      The only problem with this is that you need to be really sure that the problem is location. Because it could be that the problem is you don’t like adult life. Almost every person your age does not like adult life. It is a very very difficult transition. Working with people who are not your age is hard, but it’s going to be for the rest of your life. Having to make friends at work is hard, but you have to learn to do it. Working long hours is pretty much the only way people can support themselves, at least for their 20s.

      You might try hiring a career coach for an hour to figure out if the problem is location or something else. If it’s location, just leave your job and move back to the Midwest — there is no harm in that. If it’s not location, you need to start pinpointing specific ways to make adult life better — and realize that this is simply what 99% of other people your age are feeling as well. It’s nothing to feel bad about.

      Penelope

    • Jennifer Soodek 1:06 am on October 27, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      You might consider looking for activities outside of work with people who have similar interests as you. There are many young people in NYC just like you who would like to meet people. When you have something in common it is easier to bond and connect. Go on-line and do some research. Many philanthropic organizations are always looking for volunteers, you can join a gym, become a member of a chorus, participate in recreational athletic teams, volunteer at an animal shelter, or work with groups that help at risk youths. There are many things to do, and it can be hard and scary to put yourself out there, but go for it! You never know who you will meet.

    • Stephanie Cordato 4:11 am on November 7, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      You’re not whining over nothing, and you’re certainly not alone.

      I moved to New York City at 21 because at the time, I was sure it was the most amazing place I could possibly be. New York is a seriously tough place to live, though, even if you’re in a great neighborhood with a stable job. I don’t know if this is exactly what you’re experiencing, but for me it became cold, lonely and claustrophobic, and in less than a year I was ready to be anywhere else.

      If I’ve learned anything from reading this blog, it’s that the relationships in your life matter more than the work you’re doing, in the end. If you made it in New York City, chances are you have a good shot at making it in the city of your choice. Being with the people who make you happy outside of work will only help your career.

      One thought you might consider is that it doesn’t have to be NYC or nothing. My now-fiance and I did an exercise in cooperation by coming up with a list of cities we’d both be willing to try. When one of us landed a job in one of these cities, we both moved, so that we live somewhere great and both pursue our career interests. We’re so much happier now (and clear on the other side of the country!) because we were willing to make the leap and keeping trying until we found the right place. Best of luck to you.

  • Mailbag 1:43 am on August 6, 2011 Permalink  

    Relocating for Boyfriend 

    Recently my long-distance boyfriend of nearly 2 years and I have started talks about living to the same city. He is on one coast. I am on the other. My career field provides flexiblity, so thankfully, it is not as burdensome as it could be, and I do like his side of the country. What types of questions would you ask yourself if you were faced with moving across the country for a relationship and beginning everything over again, including your career?

     
    • Penelope Trunk 1:51 am on August 6, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      In general, I’m a fan of relocating for a boyfriend. if you’ve invested two year in the relationship, and it’s still going well, someone has to move, and if you have the flexible career, you’re probably the one to do it.

      Unlike men, women who want to have kids are under a deadline in their personal life — women need to find the guy they want to have kids with before their biological clock starts to explode. Here’s a post I’ve written about why women who want to have kids should put getting married ahead of getting a career.

      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/06/01/get-married-first-then-focus-on-career/

      So I don’t think a lot could go wrong with you deciding to move. If the relationship doesn’t work out, you seem to not mind living in the new city, and you can get a job there, so the risk you are taking by moving seems like a really good risk to take.

      I hope he’s a good guy :)

      Penelope

    • Margaret 2:57 am on August 13, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      What do you suggest if one doesn’t have good job prospects in his area? And he’s also the one more settled. Would you advocate making the move even if it means working somewhere like Starbucks/McDonalds? (I’m not being snarky, I’m really curious)

  • Mailbag 1:54 am on August 4, 2011 Permalink  

    Where Should I Live? 

    My boyfriend, JP, and I are looking at five different cities to which to move in the next two months, and it seems like you have experience in many of them, including New York City. Right now we are near you — in Madison. Could we take you out for coffee to ask you about your experiences living in all the cities you’ve lived in?

     
    • Penelope Trunk 2:04 am on August 4, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      First of all, you will not get good responses from people if you want them to help you and you want them to do it over coffee. Email is so much easier than going for coffee. If I don’t know you, or anything about you, I don’t want to take two hours out of my day to go have coffee with you. And this is true for anyone who values their time. This seems so obvious to me, but every day someone who I have never heard from before asks me to have lunch or coffee. This is not a good way to start a conversation.

      The best way to get a good answer from someone is to make it easy for them to help you. This question makes it nearly impossible for me to give help because you are not divulging any information.

      Still. I will try. Because I like to think that I’m nice.

      I have written a couple of posts that you will find immediately helpful:

      Do You Belong in NYC? Take the Test.
      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/06/11/do-you-belong-in-nyc-take-the-test/

      How to Decide Where to LIve
      http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/05/21/how-to-decide-where-to-live-2/

      In general, though, it is very very difficult to align anticipated lifetyle and anticipated career for any given city. So do this: Look at what you think you’ll be doing in the city (as in, how much money will you spend) and then look at the kind of job you’ll have to have in order to support that lifestyle. Usually there is a disconnect in a most of the cities on the list. Move to a city where these two things align, and don’t be delusional about it just to get to the city you think you SHOULD want to live in.

      Penelope

    • Susan 1:13 pm on October 18, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Wow! I just discovered the mail bag. So much excellent reading to go with my coffee and buttery toast. And re: this post. What a relief. I always feel pressure to conduct face-to-face meetings with potential clients, mentors etc. but avoid it because I hate it!! It’s awkward, unnecessary and awkward. I always feel like I’m copping out if I rely on email, fb etc. to communicate. But I’m not! Yay!